Brake Biopsy Post-Track Day

7198 Views 33 Replies 10 Participants Last post by reddog99, Oct 8, 2014

was-an-M

Discussion Starter · Aug 9, 2014

4

If you read my track day review/comments on my FiST that I posted here you may recall my commenting on the instability under heavy braking and my melting my drivers side front dust boot.

I got the car aligned to bring it to a total of 1/8" toe out front and rear (down from a fair bit more). At road safe speeds (70 down to 30) the instability seems to have improved.

However, the brakes were making a terrible noise. Much worse than typical track pad noise which I'm more than a bit familiar with

So since they were only $77 each I decided to replace my calipers figuring the melted dust boots (the passengers side was pretty crispy too) was the cause.

When I removed the drivers side caliper and inspected the Poterfield R4 pad the attached pictures are what I found.

I am not sure if the pad was dragging tho the tabs were about the same size as the OE pads and they came out of the carriers without issue. Or if the melted dust boot caused this to happen over the course of the rest of the weekend (I ran 4 20 minute sessions with a melted boot). Anyway, just thought I'd share...check your pads track guys...

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was-an-M

Discussion Starter · #21 · Aug 12, 2014

They didn't really give me a leadtime when I ordered but I ordered very early in the availability so it was probably growing pains.

If they are all noisy then I'll go with the R4 track compound again. I liked the bite and being back on street pads I realize how much better the porterfields were.

McRib 1s Back

· #22 · Aug 13, 2014

I'd have to say it's the same class/type of sound, but not nearly as loud. It's like any compromise, really. I don't mind the loud noises on the track, but for some reason, I'm almost completely intolerant of this on the street! So, yeah -- go R4 and swap at the track!

maybe_fiestast

· #23 · Oct 4, 2014

McRib 1s Back said:
I'm coming in a bit late on this thread, but I haven't had any of the issues described here. I'd hate to scare people away from good fun with track days! I also believe my FiST has seen appreciably more track time than most cars here. I don't intend that competitively, but as a reference. I often run back-to-back sessions, and have shared my car with a seasoned race car driver (so getting a couple different driving styles going). It runs hot, but has never overheated. My brakes have briefly faded with my current setup, but never completely. This was in brutal desert conditions with ambient around 102 deg F. While I have a spare set of OEM rotors, I'm still on my stock set -- and they look good. It's still just Motul 600, SS lines, Porterfield pads.

For the questions about pads, please search the forum. We have a well developed thread on the matter. I actually sent in my OEM pads so that Porterfield could make them. Just call them -- they're available in street or race compound, front and back.

My R compound tires are BFG R1s. I don't know anyone here running something more aggressive. I'm planning to go with something a bit stickier in the near future. Again, just reference for how a stickier tire can affect the other systems.

The point of my post is an attempt at balance. We have lots of variables, differences in driving technique, and possibly traction control settings. My car is still happy with me, but I do plenty of dumb things, too. From my vantage point, the car is very forgiving and hasn't done anything weird.

Another thing that occurs to me is that cars straight from the showroom floor have wonky alignment settings. There are lots of reasons for this. One that was common for a while was transportation by rail! One Nissan engineer that I know rigged instruments to see the extreme forces that act on the car and tweak alignment and other stuff.

This car is my "budget racer" and only sees track time these days. I'll eventually do something more radical with brakes, but for now the only complaint I have is that the brakes are awfully grabby with this setup. Overall braking power is very good, however. Braking feel is very subjective, but I'd give it a score in the lower-middle range. You get used to it.

Nice post. I am still having a tough time figuring out what car to buy. I have a mini coupe on order but I am super close to buying a Fiesta ST. Still a toss up. I want to do heavy autox and light track use (hdpe)

MLKN

· #24 · Oct 4, 2014

maybe_fiestast said:
Nice post. I am still having a tough time figuring out what car to buy. I have a mini coupe on order but I am super close to buying a Fiesta ST. Still a toss up. I want to do heavy autox and light track use (hdpe)

Read all the reviews, test drive both and then decide. There are a lot of happy customers here and I'd argue the Fiesta is better for your purposes compared to a new Mini.

raamaudio

· #25 · Oct 4, 2014

I was at the Octane Academy Thursday, I took my car out so it can be seen and the head of the race shop, the one with dozens of race Mustangs, wanted to check the car out, he drove it and loved it.

I asked him what they are doing for brakes on the FiST as the pads did not sound aggressive like they did on the FoST.

Stock pads and rotors, I did not ask about fluid but that is pretty much a standard for any track use, upgrade it.

Any issues? None, even when it was over 100 degrees

How often do you change pads? Every 2 months or so

Tires, BFG Comp 2 on stock wheels.

Longest session, right after somebody else got out of the car, 25 minutes, so 50 minutes or so of going all out on track with one fairly quick stop.

I found the car to be very easy to drive all out, brake late, no fade, not R comp tires which would allow later braking but I was going in very deep and pretty aggressive on the brakes but it was in the 60's that day.

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Once you go past stock power, stickier tires, that is where the most issues seem to come up...so a BBK or at least cooling ducts and the best pads and fluids may be needed.

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The 11.75" BBK can be sourced to fit under some 15" wheels, the prototype caliper mounts will need an adjustment to bring the caliper in just a bit closer to the center as mine are a bit to close to the rotors, I am going to send the info in on Monday to get the correction dialed in.

Many pads to choose from, different grade rotors available but the GT's will work the best and last the longest, kit price is very very affordable and maintenance time, which sucks if at the track, especially the cost to be there and miss any time lapping, etc....overall this can be less expensive that stock brakes and a great deal better.

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raamaudio

· #26 · Oct 4, 2014

I forgot to mention, I was very impressed with the speeds attained and easy to drive on the Comp 2 tires, very forgiving and predictable.

I also liked driving the FiST a great deal more than the Fost, which had aftermarket pads, Mich tires, an extensive cooling package to deal with overheating issues...the FiST was totally stock in that department.

MLKN

· #27 · Oct 5, 2014

Isn't the stock brake fluid Dot 4? I was under the impression that that is pretty good for high performance. Everybody keeps saying to upgrade it.

McRib 1s Back

· #28 · Oct 6, 2014

MLKN said:
Isn't the stock brake fluid Dot 4? I was under the impression that that is pretty good for high performance. Everybody keeps saying to upgrade it.

Indeed, the OEM Ford brake fluid is very good. For the street or occasional track day you may never need better...

You'll have issues on the track with it. Switch it when you do your SS lines!

carramrod

· #29 · Oct 6, 2014

Octane cars are running 100% water and water-wetter. That's the only change they did.

I find it hard to believe they aren't having cooling issues at 100F temps, being that there's multiple accounts of people getting hot on track in the 90+F heat. Could be a mix of altitude, humidity, etc...

McRib 1s Back

· #30 · Oct 6, 2014

carramrod said:
Octane cars are running 100% water and water-wetter. That's the only change they did.

I find it hard to believe they aren't having cooling issues at 100F temps, being that there's multiple accounts of people getting hot on track in the 90+F heat. Could be a mix of altitude, humidity, etc...

That sounds about right to me. At WSIR with ambient temperature well north of 100 deg F, my stock coolant system (but w/Mountune FMIC!) worked fine. The point about humidity is interesting. I'd imagine SLC has similar conditions for the same time of year.

I originally didn't credit my FMIC as having much role, but I now believe it's a pretty big deal for cooling.

Water/Water-Wetter is a great combo that has worked well for me in the past. I'm switching to this mix when I do my AC delete kit and front bar removal tweaks. Freeing up space up front should help flow considerably.

McRib 1s Back

· #31 · Oct 6, 2014

maybe_fiestast said:
Nice post. I am still having a tough time figuring out what car to buy. I have a mini coupe on order but I am super close to buying a Fiesta ST. Still a toss up. I want to do heavy autox and light track use (hdpe)

Like most here will tell you, it sounds like a Fiesta ST is in your future!

Many of us are super fickle -- and have no problem telling you what we do NOT like about our FiST. With rare exception, there isn't buyer's remorse here. I don't auto-x these days, but love track days of all kinds.

Small tweaks make this car really wake up. I'm still very pleased with my car and think it's a better car for such use. You'll have to let us know, however you decide.

CrookedRacer

· #32 · Oct 8, 2014

maybe_fiestast said:
I want to do heavy autox and light track use (hdpe)

This is exactly what I do with mine. I've got three words for you: Fan Tas Tic.

Look for my build thread on grassroots motorsports.com. I have links to it on other posts around here... And soon I will be writing up my experience this past weekend at VIR. All I can say is wow. What a rewarding weekend.

I love the Fiesta for so many reasons. And I hate it for just one: there are no little hooks in the ceiling above the doors for your suit/shirt hanger.

MLKN

· #33 · Oct 8, 2014

CrookedRacer said:
This is exactly what I do with mine. I've got three words for you: Fan Tas Tic.

Look for my build thread on grassroots motorsports.com. I have links to it on other posts around here... And soon I will be writing up my experience this past weekend at VIR. All I can say is wow. What a rewarding weekend.

I love the Fiesta for so many reasons. And I hate it for just one: there are no little hooks in the ceiling above the doors for your suit/shirt hanger.

My only complaint is no tow hooks. On topic... Ordered my porterfield r4s pads today and a nice aluminum floor jack and stands.

reddog99

· #34 · Oct 8, 2014

CrookedRacer said:
I love the Fiesta for so many reasons. And I hate it for just one: there are no little hooks in the ceiling above the doors for your suit/shirt hanger.

The reason for that is that clothing hanging there would interfere with the side-curtain air bags,

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