[McRib 1s Back]

Hi there -- as odd as it may seem, many of us cross-shopped these two cars! I have lots of friends with late-model Evos; I think they're wonderful cars! They drive well, and make great power with relatively little effort. In SOCAL we have way too many of them running around Fast N Furious style.

You have to decide what's important in a car. In the spirit of transparency, I switch between three cars and a couple motorcycles -- so I'm not sure I'd have chosen the FiST as an only car; many here have, and it's considered great for commuting. I simply fell in love with driving a super light car. It's funny that we think of 2700/2800 pounds as light, but that's about as light as it gets in today's market with necessary safety equipment, etc. Yes, you really can feel the difference. It's not just power-to-weight, plenty of cars beat our FiST there too. This is the magical combination of light weight and good power.

My lightly tuned car makes me happy. I want a little bit more power, but not a lot. As others have said, it's the wrong car if you want big power. Drive one on a spirited run and you'll see why we're so excited about it.

Before I bought my Tuxedo Black FiST, I wanted white. If it had been a pearl/metallic, I'd have gone that route. I think this particular white is too much like my first generation WRX (and felt a bit like "refrigerator white"). I still like it, but not as much as the hard-to-keep-clean Tuxedo Black! Oh yeah, I've never seen the combo you're talking about -- and I doubt you will short of a special order.

This car draws comparisons to the E30 M3. If you squint your brain, you can see it too. Drive one!

Final note on the Evo -- they said last year was the "last year", too. Since the new car platform isn't ready, they'll probably say "one more year!".

 

[McRib 1s Back]

What about the ST would deter you from making it your only car? The way my current m3 pulls through the gears is addicting, and finding a car to match its balance is very difficult.

It's interesting. Now that I have one, nothing would keep this car from being a wonderfully practical only car. I just meant that I didn't have that constraint and still picked this for my "small sports car" slot.

I have driven early and late M3s -- the old ones were righteous. Heck, all M3s are great! If you want something that resembles the E30 or E36 in a modern context, this is awfully close -- even as a FWD car! That was my biggest hang up, frankly. With the Cobb tuning it's a thing of beauty. No regrets.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Maybe base golfs at 19-20k but a GTi (the sport version) starts at 25k I think.

That's pretty accurate. My GF just bought a new base Golf with reasonable options for $21K. Figure more like $30K for the GTi you want.

Also, the Golf R is super nice. It ranks very high up for a great overall car, but is a terrible track car (as in can't do it). The "undefeatable" stability control is also noticeable on the street. That has been true for a long time on this platform. I recall this issue on my R32 (one of the best sounding cars ever).

 

[McRib 1s Back]

As for interior look feel and quality fiesta win
I owned a ralliart 2012 and got bored of the sst
I suspect you will go for gsr so no hid no leather no nav... The evo is getting old
Sure the track experience is ine of the best around but i assume its a daily driver... Torque is always late , ride is harsher than the fist trunk space is absent and for god sake why the washer fluid behind the rear seats!

Shes expensive to own tires, brakes, fluids(sst)

I do not regret my swich from my baby evo ti the fist( well the fist could be awd for winter)

The point about the interior is a good one. The FiST won't impress you coming from a European car (and especially not an Audi!), but it's nicer than the others in the segment, and better than the Evo. One moto pundit said "it punches above it's weight..." and that really is the statement that seems to best define the appeal of the FiST. Everyone expects great things from an Evo (and the cars that define the segment), but even car enthusiasts are surprised the first time they take the wheel of a FiST.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Don't think the price will come down much below current, especially for a Ford. They are selling lots of cars.

Also I don't believe you can get a new GTI for $19000. Of course with their faulty engine they may be heavily discounting them.
I have a 2011 GTI which cost $29,000 and even though my ST won't be in for another week or two, I am really curious to compare them performance wise.

What I didn't see in these posts is that an ST is a subcompact which your bimmer and Evo are not so the only real decision is do you want that small of a car. My wife asked that question and I told her that it's small and fun like the Scirroco of old and she liked that.....

With a Cobb Stage I map, my seat-of-the-pants says the GTi and the ST are very close. However the sensation of speed is greater in the FiST. This is another way to express the joy in driving the car.

Great point about the size difference! The small size is actually my favorite part. When someone quibbles about "room in the boot", I laugh. I might be able to load the FiST into the cargo hold of my Touareg TDI. I park next to the Golf all the time, and I'd say it's 7/8ths the size of our ST. The Golf is about 300-400 lbs heavier. 3200 pounds really is the new "light car"; you must go to a small convertible or sub-compact to play in this space.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

I bet you could get pretty close to 19-20k if you find a '13 GTI still on the lot. '14s here start at 22.5 and go up to 31.

I have both the cars in my driveway right now and I'd say that the GTI seems to pull harder while the ST is much more agile. The weight difference is extremely noticeable. The GTI also cooks its brakes faster on the same foothill roads that I wring them out on.

The interior is superior on the GTI, but the seats are better on the ST. I prefer the shifter on the ST, but my wife prefers the GTI. Steering I'd give to the ST. The dog definitely prefers the GTI due to a flatter cargo area, higher roofline, and easier access to the rear windows.

Both are good cars, it's really a matter of preference thing.

Good message! Where is "here"? Are we talking USD? Leftover models are often steeply discounted, so that's something for a cross-shopper to keep in mind. Here in LA/Long Beach GTIs are readily available. Even the base Golf interior is nicer than an ST, but I'm okay with that!

My neighbor has a GTI, so I'm pretty sure I can arrange a few drag races/roll-on contests. One other point is that the ST develops boost and a real sense of power super fast. The GTI isn't laggy, but feels that way compared to an ST, wouldn't you agree?

 

[McRib 1s Back]

DC metro is here so yup, USD.

I wouldn't say either of them are particularly laggy. I don't know that I could make that call. I never really do rolls or drag stuff so I'm not the best to ask. I will say that it's much easier to get power down in the ST coming out of a corner because the GTI has a much harder time rotating and has much more pronounced understeer. This is even more noticeable right now since they're both on winter tires. The GTI on winters just straight up plows and takes forever to get the nose where you need it comparatively. It's more predictable in the slush though...the ST likes to wag the rear in bends in the snow.

GTI is on X-ices ST is on Blizzaks right now FWIW.

I can see a parking lot snow drift video in your future!

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Hello McRibs and All,

First time poster here. Been lurking for awhile. This might not be a good place for a fist post as people might think of me as snobbish. But, honestly , I m just an enthusiast.

I m curious on what your lineup is?

Mine is currently:
-'07 Triumph Daytona 675 - just love the sound of that triple and the skinny naked mid section.

-'03 Mitsu Evo - RRE built with a stroker engine and all. I have a hyper Jack Russell Terrier and this car in my mind is just like him: it sees something then it darts there. For posters who live in Socal and want to get an Evo but is affraid thay Mitsu USA will go under, just bring your car to reputable shops RRE has been great taking care of my car.

-'65 Mustang coupe - built with blueprinted 331 stroker, 4 sp toploader tranny with Hurst shifter, aggressive rack-pinion, and stiff suspension work.

- '13 Lexus GS350 - actually 2, his and hers. Mine is an F Sport and wifey's is "base". Our commuters. I like lighter cars and for this class this is the lightest one and more fun and balanced than F10 5er. The GS, for me, feels like a better modern version of E39 5er.

The 2 cars that I don't have the balls to buy are Daytona Coupe replica and Lotus Esprit S4S (had and S4 14 years ago. Fun but troublesome).

Now going back to topic. I really need to find time to test drive FiST as I want a fun and light hot hatch. We all know that GTi is too big and heavy. I was disappointed when I test drove FoST. It felt heavy and just not special. Well, not as disappointed as to STi hatch, though: it was pure "wtf is this heavy cushy thing and they want how much?"

For me, a car doesn't have to be expensive or fast to be exciting. I m at a point in life where I m not obsessed with objective numbers and I just want fun thrilling cars.

Evo 8 and 9 are fun cars, 10 is not. E30 and E36 M3 (and M Coupe) are fun cars . E9x M3 are not . Test drove an E90 M3 with comp pckg and I turned around after 2 blocks: felt heavy and cold. Drove a C6 Z06 and felt whats the point of this car to me personally as it delivered roughly about the same performance with my Evo, plus I really hated the seat. Toyobaru twin was an almost. It was quite exciting but that weird powerband ruined it.

A car that really excites me to the gotta-have-it level in 10 years (last one was Evo 8) is Toyota FT1 concept. That if they ever produce it AND with a real proper engine.

You compared FiST to E30 M3, hopefully I'll feel the same way too. Otherwise, I m affraid I ll end up to be one of those balding older guys driving Lotus 7 replica .

Or maybe I ll just pick up an '07+ RX-8 as I appreciate it more now, except for the early time bomb 4 port engine.

PS: Caddy ATS with 2.0t w 6sp is actually a very fun car that reminds me of E36 M3. Too expensive as a toy brand new, too small as a family hauler, though.

Thanks all for those reading my "there is nothing new under the sun" rants. Happy motoring and have a blast 3-wheeling your FiST at corners .

Welcome! Good message, and you're with kindred spirit here. Seriously, many of us have had 20+ cars and bikes. I literally have to check my spreadsheet -- but I believe the FiST is car #30, and my two current bikes make it about 30, too. Some of us are old guys, but I'm just barely in my 4th decade of life!

I'll speak for myself here -- this car has caused me to wake up from a really long period of being jaded or unexcited about cars. I sold my 2013 S5 after 3K miles and don't miss it (though I miss my SLK 55 AMG). This car is what could have been the natural evolution of the Nissan SE-R. It isn't. Nissan screwed up after the B14 and SERiously lost its way. Boo. The FiST rocks!

I'm headed to SoW on 2nd. This car made me want to do track days again. I have not done track days in many years! You've read all the same online material as we have -- the FiST is universally loved.

Having said that, I needed to make a few tweaks to unleash its potential. The FSWERKS/Cobb APv3 and some sticky tires have made this an unbelievably fun car. Check out my related posts and weigh in there too.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

you tried a mercedes cla45 amg? an interesting automobile.. perhaps a bit too heavy, slushy based on your comments.

i bought the fist, was looking at a new c7 as a second car at the same time and im holding off because of problems. i have a modified WRX runs on e85 too.

fist is a blast to drive. well worth the price for what it is. part of the fun is its not terribly expensive but still very fun to drive. what i'd really like is a 2.0l awd, dog box sequential version.......

The CLA is interesting. The AWD AMG variant is a beast -- but over $50K! I cited the CLA in a thread where the GTi was being compared to the ST (how meaningfully different cars get compared all the time).

Just because I drive a Ford, now, it doesn't mean that I don't like other brands. I love German cars. I love the way they smell, the bank vault door closures, great engines, trick transmissions, and generally better braking systems. I don't love how heavy and uninvolved they have become!

 

[McRib 1s Back]

I will check your postings as I navigate through the threads.

I was a bmw fan and had quite a few of them until Bangle came and left and then bmw decided to chase MB and their AMG's tail. Can you believe it that nothing from their line up excited me now? I consider E86 Z4 M Coupe as the last real M car. Cautiously hoping they will do the M4 right and secretly hoping they will do M2 instead of M235i. German "muscle cars" have become very fast but cold at the same time. I swear that my '79 911SC was more fun than my '05 C2S. While I somewhat regret selling the former I don't regret at all selling the latter.

About modding cars. I usually have the patience to wait until the warranty run out. Got 2 transfer cases from Mitsu for my Evo and, although they vigilantly sent an inspector, they couldn't do anything but honored the warranty as it was bone stock. Atypical for Evos but I ve always driven this car hard as it is meant to be. Ford, and any other manufacturers, often makes boo2 in their first year production. Wise to keep the car stock for at least 18 months while driving it hard to find the weak points. Never admit voluntarily that you track the car, though. Well, that if you plan to keep the car for a long time. I knew that my evo would be a keeper: my daughter will drive it when she is old enough ha ha. Evo 8 is not that different from 9 and 9 is probably the last all-mechanical performance car mass produced. Only Lotus Elise and Exige have a better steering feel IMO.

I bet FiST will be a blast to drive at the technical Streets.

Chris Bangle -- go go gadget flame surface design (on everything!).

I absolutely loved the old Z4 M Coupe. It had a compromised rear suspension design but still danced awfully well. It was funky, but I thought it looked a bit like an Aston Martin (if you squinted your brain).

I'm not worried about light mods here. I'm not going crazy, I'll run the AP programs, an intake, full exhaust, big brakes, coilovers, and call it good! This car might become a dedicated race car one day.

Edit: "Compromised", not "comprised".

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Hello McRibs and All,

You compared FiST to E30 M3, hopefully I'll feel the same way too. Otherwise, I m affraid I ll end up to be one of those balding older guys driving Lotus 7 replica .

Or maybe I ll just pick up an '07+ RX-8 as I appreciate it more now, except for the early time bomb 4 port engine.

If you drive a FiST, see if they'll let you drive it with stability control off, or at least in "sport mode". It's a very different car that way. My dealer *wanted* me to drive it hard, and I did! We had fun, and he told the owner about it. It was probably the single coolest dealer interaction I've had, in this way. They appreciated that I didn't want the weight and loss of structural rigidity associated with a moon roof -- and that I wanted helmet clearance for track days!

I meant to say this before -- the RX-8 is awesome, but scores an "almost" with me. Early models had issues, it is intolerant of pinging of any kind, and it gets really terrible fuel efficiency. It is crazy lightweight and a great handler. Randy Pobst loves it. You can get a deal on one if you go that route. For me, it's like having great memories of an old movie that doesn't stand the test of time. The RX-8 feels dated to me now. You can't be that one-dimensional and be considered a great car.

Also, the obvious thing about simply getting an E30 or E36? I don't want old car problems there either.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Too small for a family duty, no manual for toy. For awd turbo german lux cars in this class, i m more interested in '14 Audi S3, better, the mechanically identical '15 golf r that will be available with manual. But then I already have an awd turbo car. Dont think i want one but i never say never until driving one.

At least for the US market, the VWs have a nagging inability to fully turn off stability control. I don't recall this being addressed by APR or other tuners, but surely it must have?! You can't track a car with stability control!

The new Audi S3 is intriguing. I've had many Audis and will always have a soft spot for them.

I'd like to drive a manual Golf R, but only if they fix the software. I'm unclear if that's just a US market thing, or if others don't care (or know) that you can't fully defeat it?

 

[McRib 1s Back]

From what I read, the mk7 2015 golf r will have a fully turnoff-able stability control.

Gosh, where did I put that $750 coupon from Ford? Did my wife throw it away. With the multiple rebates and dealers around here selling about $500 below invoice before rebates, I could really buy this car.

PM me, and I'll give you relevant, recent prices and rebates. You can easily get this car for just a couple hundred over true invoice. Go drive one with Recaro seats, sans moonroof.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Ah, good point. Before you decide, test it out. They do break-in. Also some very big guys (as seen on YouTube) really like them. I'm more "wide receiver" shaped, and they felt tight on my shoulders until about 500 miles of use. They just don't work for some people.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Very interesting.. what makes you not like the X? From what I have seen, the AWD is superior, and the steering feel is amazing. I love the 9's as well, but buying a used Evolution worries me, so an X would be the next best thing.

Also, care to touch on the BRZ a bit more? That is also what I am considering, and with how much Chris Harris goes on bout the car, it is hard to ignore, even with the anemic motor.

Report back once you test drive the FiST, I am eager to get your take on the car.

I have driven it, and my test drive was a bit boring. No turns, mostly on the freeway. It had more pep that I was anticipating, but I would have really liked to see how it handled.

McRib: What do you feel is a good price for a bae car with only the recaro option? I've got truecar telling me I can get it for $21,000 AND I have a $500 coupon from Ford to add on top. That is with $100 American Express incentive, $1,500 Fiesta customer cash, $500 Loan retail cash, and $500first time buyer cash.

Not sure if that is a deal anyone would honor, but I would certainly try.

I agree with you on the X, but all hard core Evo guys say this very thing about 8/9s.

The BRZ and FR-S are lovely cars. They look better and are a joy to drive. I cannot get over that motor. It killed the deal for me. The dealer let me drive one a few times without restrictions.

You did your homework -- that's a fair price. Some coupons don't stack, but try! If all that sticks, that's better than I did!

 

[McRib 1s Back]

If you saw this on a test drive (FRS- BRZ) think about living with that motor everyday if you would have owned one like I have.. It was the deal breaker for my to move on... the FRS routine was stand on the gas and wait ..... oh shift.. With the FiST it is more like Stand on the Gas pull yourself out of the back of the seat and then shift .. Repeat.. lots of smiles coming out of second gear with purpose...

Yep!

Truth is, I'd have one, too, if the dealer would have worked with me on the price. Of course, they're happy to now -- but last year, they were marked up! No can do. I bought a 370Z for a little more, but quickly fell out of love there too...

 

[McRib 1s Back]

8 over 10?
Maybe 2 factors:
1) just like 993 Porsche owners prefer theirs than 996. The former is more engaging although the latter is faster and technologically more advance.

2) my 8 is fully built with engine, suspension, brake. The 10s I drove were stock. However, you cant change the steer feel and 8 is just more telepathic. Having said that the seq tranny of the MR is amazing doing its job and the MR is actually more entertaining than the GSR in the stock form.

Well said. Depending on where you are in life, you may prefer one over the other. The older "purer" cars are also generally not as nice in terms of polish/fit-and-finish. The car industry has been rewarded by creating bigger, heavier, SAFER, nicer, and more expensive variants. Consequently, they are not as "pure" in the eyes of enthusiasts. The enthusiast crowd is very outspoken, but represent only a minor portion of the overall demographic (not even close). Witness the C&D "Save The Manuals!" campaign. Cute.

Also, it's always weird to drive a newer stock version when you have a similar car that is "built". The same friend that loved my FiST said that my brakes "felt weird". He quickly realized that EVERY car he owns has super brakes. With the exception of his new GTR, all have been upgraded to whatever the biggest/best setup would fit! On the flip side, he quickly noticed how the FiST felt less like a tuner car (the MS3 comes to mind) and more like a well-engineered car where all systems were thoughtfully integrated (also a common observation of our car).

I often like cars that "fly under the radar" in terms of conspicuous consumption and performance, but I'm guilty of having a few cars that are right in the cross-hairs of where I do not want to be! This car is a return to a good place for me. I feel good driving it and so far, all of the people I know with one are good folk! I'm happy, and we're discovering there's an easy way about this forum. I've had a number of offline conversations with people about how off-putting other car forums can be. It seems we don't have anything to prove here. How refreshing.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Not to belabor this but the GTI ESC was capable of being turned off. I had over 300 Ax runs including with hi speed sweepers in Blytheville, Topeka and Lincoln with and without R-Comps with never a hint of TC. And for S&G's I left it on in a couple of wet autocross runs and liked to killed myself. It turned like a tractor...
Interestingly (as I never drove one) a local with an R32 told me the Golf R was the one you couldn't turn off.

Thanks for that, I do find it interesting. It's probably a liability/fear-of-litigation thing! You're right, I was thinking about the R when I mentioned that; the video with MT's Carlos Lago was still fresh in my mind. It's just super weird that their special car, intended for such driving, is the one that can't defeat TC! A few people have since commented that their sources tell them the 2015 Golf R (w/manual!) can defeat it. It seems VW has heard the people.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Okay i m sidetracking a bit here ....

Those who drove ft86, did you also drive the matic?

I might be stoned and burnt to death, but I feel that with that 3300-4800 rpm torque dip, it is almost like the car was tuned for matic as the tranny will shift soon enough avoiding this dip when driven leisurely, making the mating a better sorted/tuned car from factory.

Oh man, go lurk on the FT86 board and you'll read about this dip that is a conspiray on a federal level! Seriously, it's wonky, but not "fixed".

To answer your question, the automatic isn't bad. It's not great, either. You won't think you landed in a magic setup that works like DCT/DSG.

You just went from being an enthusiast to driving Tupperware, however.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

With current incentives, it can appear to be "below invoice". For a low production car, they're eager to move them!