FiST vs Civic Si(FG4)

10140 Views 21 Replies 9 Participants Last post by stuntdoogie, Jul 13, 2014

chalituna

Discussion Starter · Jan 15, 2014

Within owning my Fiesta for 2 weeks, it happened sooner or later... I got taunted by a ricer in a Civic Si (2013). Guy was tailgating me in a semi-busy California traffic highway wanted to race. Eventually he zig-zagged through carpool lane to prove his manhood and left.

This got me thinking... How does a stock/mildly tuned Civic Si stand up next to Fiesta ST? I'm assuming it's a close call but everywhere I look, it's about Focus ST vs Civic Si..

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McRib 1s Back

· #2 · Jan 15, 2014

chalituna said:
Within owning my Fiesta for 2 weeks, it happened sooner or later... I got taunted by a ricer in a Civic Si (2013). Guy was tailgating me in a semi-busy California traffic highway wanted to race. Eventually he zig-zagged through carpool lane to prove his manhood and left.

This got me thinking... How does a stock/mildly tuned Civic Si stand up next to Fiesta ST? I'm assuming it's a close call but everywhere I look, it's about Focus ST vs Civic Si..

Good call on your part -- that's not a real test.

Stand up? If you mean a drag style run at a stop light, the better driver wins. With a Cobb 91 octane map, you'd have some buffer. We're looking at similar stock HP, but the FiST has considerably more torque (bit like a comparison to a FR-S or BRZ). Roll-on contests favor the FiST.

The FiST would destroy a Civic Si on a road course! This is the reason we have such a car.

Reactions: 2

Cligedy

· #3 · Jan 15, 2014

Hp is similar, torque is significantly better in the FiST, curb weight is better in the FiST, the Si has more tire on the road when stock.
Do Sis ever show up at the drag strip?

McRib 1s Back

· #4 · Jan 15, 2014

Cligedy said:
Hp is similar, torque is significantly better in the FiST, curb weight is better in the FiST, the Si has more tire on the road when stock.
Do Sis ever show up at the drag strip?

They used to be very popular at the local drag races in Carlsbad. Way fewer now. I was just talking to a friend about this -- most people are "over FWD", in general. We're in the RWD rebirth era. Anyhow, I swore it off too, but here I am!

Reactions: 1

chalituna

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 15, 2014

With variety of electronic mumbo jumbo and some fine suspension tuning, not to mention a factory turbo, made sporty fwd cars really fun.

FWD cars might not be like high performance cars like wrx or evo but it's economical, gas efficient, and easy to drive

McRib 1s Back

· #6 · Jan 15, 2014

chalituna said:
With variety of electronic mumbo jumbo and some fine suspension tuning, not to mention a factory turbo, made sporty fwd cars really fun.

FWD cars might not be like high performance cars like wrx or evo but it's economical, gas efficient, and easy to drive

Most of us agree. The FiST stands alone in having great turn-in and fantastic steering feel. Most are way too numb. In fact I can't say I'd own any other FWD car.

Here's to hoping this starts a new trend in simple, fun, lightweight, and inexpensive cars!

Reactions: 3

Cligedy

· #7 · Jan 15, 2014

This is my first FWD car, and it wouldn't surprise me if I never found another this good. Seriously, this car turns as hard as my Miata. The Miata handles better, but the FiST is really good.

McRib 1s Back

· #8 · Jan 16, 2014

fly2low said:
Just give him a smile and a thumb up and do him a favor by saving him a couple bucks for Viagra? That's what I usually do. This is exactly why my wife hates driving my Evo as rices of all nations, ethnicities, and religions would want to race an evo, especially with a female driver.

A highway pull "race" is kinda pointless for these 2 cars, isn't it? That's why there are AMG cars.

Oh hey Mr. Evo, I meant to tell you this story earlier...

On the way home from work the other night, I had a clean Evo X MR sniffing around. He zoomed up to examine my rear, then pulled alongside where he was looking at my NAV and, presumably, my Cobb AP display. I gave him a friendly wave. I assume he could see me through my illegal tint.

Anyhow, he literally orbited me for miles. I don't have a Fiesta badge, and my Ford badges are black. I'm guessing he thought it was a Focus ST at first. I suppose those can have the power to match an Evo for a roll-on contest.

No race, but he revved and pulled away, then drifted back a couple times to make sure I knew he was there. I can imagine a post on his Evo board about it.

BRGT350

· #9 · Jan 16, 2014

on a race track, the ST had no issues flying by a newer Civic Si. Corvette Z06, M6, and highly modded Civic's and Evo's did prove hard to catch with the ST. The ST did however play nicely with an E36 M3 and Integra Type R. The cars and drivers seemed well matched. I could pass him, but never put a huge distance on him. The M6 passed the ST and never seen again, those and a Z06 on Hoosier's were impossible to hang with.

There really is too many variables to safely say what the ST is faster than. I have track footage from a C6 Z06 being only a second or slow faster than the ST, but had the doors blown off the ST by a C5 Z06. Why the difference? The C5 was a trailed, highly prepped open track/time attack car running ungodly wide Hoosier slicks. The C6 Z06 was stock and the driver wasn't pushing very hard. As for Brandon and I with the ST, we also were running about 7/10 of our ability on track. We were there to gather footage, was the first time on track in a few years, first time with the ST, and did not want to call Ford and say we stuffed the ST into a wall a few days after getting it. As for beating the Civic, the car was stock and the driver was out there for fun and not FTD. The only way to really compare "is the ST faster than X" is by looking at test results when stock cars are driven on the same track by the same driver and the conditions are the same during the runs. While I had no problems passing and pulling away from a new Civic Si on track, a professional driver in the Civic Si would have left the ST in the dust. Just the same as if I was in the time attack C5 and a professional driver was in the ST. The skill of the driver can trump the car.

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Reactions: 1

RodMoe

· #10 · Jan 16, 2014

And you said the Tires started getting a lil greasy after a few hardish laps if i recall think how it might have been on a different tire

McRib 1s Back

· #11 · Jan 16, 2014

BRGT350 said:
on a race track, the ST had no issues flying by a newer Civic Si. Corvette Z06, M6, and highly modded Civic's and Evo's did prove hard to catch with the ST. The ST did however play nicely with an E36 M3 and Integra Type R. The cars and drivers seemed well matched. I could pass him, but never put a huge distance on him. The M6 passed the ST and never seen again, those and a Z06 on Hoosier's were impossible to hang with.

There really is too many variables to safely say what the ST is faster than. I have track footage from a C6 Z06 being only a second or slow faster than the ST, but had the doors blown off the ST by a C5 Z06. Why the difference? The C5 was a trailed, highly prepped open track/time attack car running ungodly wide Hoosier slicks. The C6 Z06 was stock and the driver wasn't pushing very hard. As for Brandon and I with the ST, we also were running about 7/10 of our ability on track. We were there to gather footage, was the first time on track in a few years, first time with the ST, and did not want to call Ford and say we stuffed the ST into a wall a few days after getting it. As for beating the Civic, the car was stock and the driver was out there for fun and not FTD. The only way to really compare "is the ST faster than X" is by looking at test results when stock cars are driven on the same track by the same driver and the conditions are the same during the runs. While I had no problems passing and pulling away from a new Civic Si on track, a professional driver in the Civic Si would have left the ST in the dust. Just the same as if I was in the time attack C5 and a professional driver was in the ST. The skill of the driver can trump the car.

Good message, I totally agree. Bench racing in a forum only gets you so far!

Let's make this about the car, since I think the OP wondered that (assuming equal driver skill). I was imagining Randy Pobst driving both, when I wrote that!

I've seen him drive a new Civic and complain about a few things that Ford gets right on the Focus ST (in terms of steering and handling). Randy is a great racer and has the uncanny ability to talk through the entire run. We know a lot of that some handling goodness lives in the new FiST.

Anyhow, I'm betting Randy would be considerably faster in the FiST than the Civic Si. Randy would also beat the ST in the same cars you beat (stock C6, M3, etc).

Also, this doesn't come through as well in a message, but I have no illusion about being the fastest guy on the track. In my 20s (and a bit of my 30s), I would get a case of Red Mist! I've shaken that, and I'm faster for it. I love seeing all kinds of cars (and people) run. It's a great social event. Bad attitudes can wreck a good time for everyone.

Edit: note on Red Mist.

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BRGT350

· #12 · Jan 16, 2014

Pobst would be faster on a Big Wheel than me in a Viper

Some guys have awesome talent when it comes to making things go fast.

One of my favorite examples of driver>car is a few years ago when a guy showed up at the track in this brand new 911 Turbo and was bragging how he was easily going to take FTD. He wasn't a local guy, some big shot from Chicago in town for the weekend. A good friend of mine took FTD honors in a 93 Civic hatch that had so much bondo under the paint that the magnetic decals would only stick in a few areas. The 911 guy was livid! He failed to realize that my friend had been autocrossing and tracking Civics and Integras for years, was always up there with the fastest lap times, and had a ton of money wrapped up in suspension, tires, and the engine.

There is just too many variables in comparing "Y car is faster than X car", but very few really understand that. It comes with age and spending enough time on track to realize all the variables.

Reactions: 1

sumo64c

· #13 · Jan 16, 2014

Civic si is in focus st category. As far as hatchback hotrods, the mini cooper S/jcw and hyundai veloster turbo are the only true class rivals.

McRib 1s Back

· #14 · Jan 16, 2014

sumo64c said:
Civic si is in focus st category. As far as hatchback hotrods, the mini cooper S/jcw and hyundai veloster turbo are the only true class rivals.

Maybe for straight line performance. We're going to see Pobst do a comparo at SoW soon. The Hyundai is slower on the track. The Cooper is a peer, but doesn't make many friends doing it.

McRib 1s Back

· #15 · Jan 16, 2014

BRGT350 said:
Pobst would be faster on a Big Wheel than me in a Viper Some guys have awesome talent when it comes to making things go fast.

One of my favorite examples of driver>car is a few years ago when a guy showed up at the track in this brand new 911 Turbo and was bragging how he was easily going to take FTD. He wasn't a local guy, some big shot from Chicago in town for the weekend. A good friend of mine took FTD honors in a 93 Civic hatch that had so much bondo under the paint that the magnetic decals would only stick in a few areas. The 911 guy was livid! He failed to realize that my friend had been autocrossing and tracking Civics and Integras for years, was always up there with the fastest lap times, and had a ton of money wrapped up in suspension, tires, and the engine.

There is just too many variables in comparing "Y car is faster than X car", but very few really understand that. It comes with age and spending enough time on track to realize all the variables.

Right! I once heard he could drive a table faster than X, too. I guess that means flat side down, steering with the legs.

For those that don't know, Randy has most of the lap records at SoW in the street car class.

Your 911 story is great. I saw a similar thing unfold years ago. I beat a guy in a 993 Turbo and he couldn't grasp it. Same thing with a Mustang GT. I was nowhere the fastest time either! Oh yeah this was with our lowly Nissan SE-Rs!

chalituna

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jan 16, 2014

I really need to go track my Fiesta. I"ve never really tracked my car so I have zero experience...

All my experience is from mountain ride/canyon run

totusPorcus

· #17 · Jan 16, 2014

well this should be interesting if released in the us.

2.0 vtec turbo/280 hp..

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Cligedy

· #18 · Jan 16, 2014

Earth Dreams, huh? Sounds exciting

McRib 1s Back

· #19 · Jan 16, 2014

totusPorcus said:
well this should be interesting if released in the us.

2.0 vtec turbo/280 hp..

If it does, it won't look like that! Six piston brakes? Giant ~13" rotors? C'mon.

American Honda has been predictably boring. I'd love to be proven wrong!

captainmorbid

· #20 · Jan 16, 2014

It's not coming here...

Sent via poles, wires and telegraph 2.

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