[CrookedRacer]

Now, I couldn't write a scathing report of a Hawk pad and not present the fact that I'm mostly pleased with a different product they sell.

I also purchased DTC-60 pads, which are a race compound. You should not put these on your street-driven car, because they will not operate at a low temperature range (the range they'll be in at the just about every red light you come to..)

I installed these on my front brakes only. With some additional cooling from the ducts I made, they lasted the entire weekend, and they appear to have enough material to last a good way into another weekend. They performed well, although with some fade late in my first session, when the car didn't have the ducts installed.

The pads wore evenly throughout the weekend, and my rotors are quite smooth... they are ready to accept a new pad of any material. So you can change your pads at the track and not worry so much that your rotors will be a mess when you go to put your street pads back on.

I can't really guess how these would have performed or held up over the weekend without the benefit of cooling, so my next task will be to see how OEM pads hold up when they are kept cool. The DTC-60's cost about 2 1/2 times what the OEM pads do. If I can get a full weekend of life out of the OEM pads, the OEM's might actually be the best option.

Overall, the DTC-60's are much easier on the rotors, which means I won't be spending another $100 for a replacement set of rotors anytime soon!

(STREET/RACE pads/rotor wear on the left, DTC-60 pads/rotor wear on the right)

This pad compound was evidently also affected by a manufacturing/production issue at Hawk, where all the pads shipped were the outer pads. If you have bought these, or if you intend to, be sure to check before you install them that you have been provided inner and outer pads. They're different.

 

[haste]

CrookedRacer, where did you purchase the DT-60 pads for the FiST?

 

[CrookedRacer]

I bought them from http://www.topbrakes.com. For some reason, pricing has gone up $10-$20 since I purchased mine, so shop around.

Quite a few options there.

I still plan on trying the OEM pads on a track day again, this time WITH cooling ducts installed. I want to see if they hold up any better if they can be kept cooler.

So I'm not buying any more expensive pads until I know for sure that such pads are likely to perform at least as well AND last at least twice as long as OEM's.

I'll let you know after NASA HPDE @ Watkins Glen coming up next week.

 

[haste]

I ended up purchasing the DTC-60s from topbrakes, thanks. I can't purchase OEM front pads anywhere and all are on backorder till jun 12th. I was trying to avoid swapping my pads twice in one weekend, but oh well.

I just hope I'm hard enough on the brakes at the track to keep the DTC-60s up to temp.

 

[CrookedRacer]

That won't be a problem. I toasted my OEM's at Summit Point... in the snow!

 

[haste]

Oh wow, with cooling?

I just received my pads...what is the difference supposed to be between the inner and outer pads? All of mine look the same.

 

[haste]

Sigh...just my luck. Already in touch with Hawk about the issue. They seem willing to resolve. I just hope I get a set of new pads by Friday!

 

[CrookedRacer]

Dont hold your breath. I am still waiting. In fact i am a bit disappointed that Hawk didnt recall all affected stock from its distribution chain by the time you ordered yours.

 

[CrookedRacer]

Here is what i did with my pads in order to make use of them.

http://fiestast.net/posts/36627/

I am halfway through a two day event at Watkins Glen and i think my DTC-60's pictured in the link just might make it through the day tomorrow (with cooling).

That would be a total of four long track days out of one set. (Two at VIR, two at "The Glen"). Next time i do a track day i go back to square one, and I will see just how long a set of OEMs can last me while they are being cooled.

That might just be my setup if i can get more than a weekend out of a set that way.

 

[haste]

Thanks for the link, CrookedRacer. I will have to do the same thing as Edwin said inners won't be available for another 4-6 weeks. I guess it's worth the hassle for a free set of pads.

 

[Smokin]

I put the Hawk HPS 5.0 on front and new OEM in rear and they have worked fine in over 85 autocross runs so far (70 at the Evo School). Just as good as OEM but no lockup despite hard braking.

 

[CrookedRacer]

All righty folks, the verdict is in. The DTC-60's lasted a total of three track days. That's 12 sessions of 20-25 minutes each.

After my very first session on day 2 at Watkins Glen, the left inner pad was toast - down to bare metal, and melted/warped a bit. The outer pads looked like they had plenty of material. Unfortunately the inners had worn a little faster. I am sure it wasn't a binding of the caliper slides, though, since I lubricated them with each pad replacement I've done so far. They slide quite easily.

I'm just glad I recognized the sound and feel of it, because the instructor I had with me didn't notice. I had pedal pressure, but no matter how hard I hit the brakes, I wasn't getting the full stopping power.

So instead of doing my second session, I replaced the fronts with OEMs, replaced the rear OEM pads (also just down to bare metal in one place) with Hawk Blues, and bled the system a bit, which resulted in much better pedal feel. They had been squishy all weekend, I believe due to a bubble or two in the rear lines.

So, I do feel like I've been doing brake work for the past two days (and occasionally driving on the track).

Here's the bottom line: I think the OEM pads are the better value, dollar for dollar. They have excellent stopping power on the track when they are kept cool, and a new set will probably last one entire track weekend (8 sessions) even when driven hard. And they cost less than $60 (or at least they did when I bought them on Amazon). To pay an additional $120 or so for DTC-60's (only to gain 50% more wear life) just doesn't make financial sense.

More Tips from Uncle John:

1) If your brakes make a grinding sound when you get off the track, don't go on the track again until you have inspected them by actually removing the pads.

2) When replacing the front pads, be sure not to put too much grease in the slides. They should have only a light film of hi-temp caliper grease. If you fill up the cavities in the caliper carrier with too much grease, the caliper can't actually compress into that space.

3) When replacing the rear pads, be sure to turn the turning cogs on the face of the piston so that the notches in the piston are in a perfect up-down-side-side orientation. This allows a little knob in the center of the back of the rear pad to engage one of the notches in the piston, to keep it from turning, and to ensure that the pad is flat against the piston. If the high cogs on the piston are in the up-down position you could have a canted inner pad, causing uneven wear.

 

[haste]

I ran the DTC-60s this past weekend at VIR. Two track days, four 25 minute sessions and four 20 minute sessions for a total of 180 minutes. I drove the crap out of the car and didn't hold back. I had no cooling other than the removal of the stock rotor debris shields. I think the pads held up great and worked well. I don't have another pad to compare to on the track though.

I drove the car home with the DTC-60s on it and everything was ok. Of course, I went slower than usual, increased my following distances and worked the traffic lights best I could.

The rotors held up very well and are still on the car back with the OEM pads.

 

[CrookedRacer]

Wow,they look hardly used at all! I must be doing it wrong.

 

[haste]

To be fair it was my first time on a track so I may not have punished them quite as hard. My fastest lap was around 2 min 28 sec range.

The pads did fade on me at a couple corners during different laps but overall were very consistent. I do think cooling would help.

 

[Golfguy11800]

I had luck with Carbotech RP2's F/R

I run the piss out of my car. It's an endurance race pad. While the stock ones lasted me 2,000 "street" miles. I have about 30% left after 8,000 more "Street" miles.

Obviously you need to get heat in them to work. I daily this pad as well and never ran into a problem... I think they would benefit a bit, like all pads from better cooling... going to remove the fog lights and run some ducts like the rally cars.

This is how I drive whenever I take the car out...