[15pbfist]

So much money for stage 3. Saw a guy in another forum getting better numbers than most stage 3's with him only having a fmic and e 40 fuel tune. He is posting numbers of 220whp and 305 wtq compared to 212whp 280wtq from the otsm from Cobb. So question is what numbers can you really get from a stage 3 and custom tune?

 

[felopr]

ethanol makes turbo cars fly literally lol
a fair question would be , how much a full stage 3 car with e45 and a tune would make, 250hp is posible imo...

 

[sourskittle]

The fuel system would be on the ragged edge of reliability if it even had enough go make 250whp on E45. My car is in the 230-245Whp range right now and I've got the fuel system CRANKED at 6,000+ rpms to keep up with E30/E40. On cold nights ( mid 40's degrees ), its not able to keep the AFR where I'm requesting it ( 12.0-12.2 ). It will lean out to 12.5. Which means if you live in a place where it gets "bat-shit crazy cold", you could push it into the 13+ range. And if your spinning a stock turbo fast enough to make 250whp ( not gonna happen btw ), then it could get really bad, really quick.

Highest whp number I've seen from a stock turbo'd fist so far is 220whp, and that was a full cobb Stg3 car tuned BY COBB. Cobb's shop car only made 217whp with stg3.


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno

 

[15pbfist]

Yea that's the real question. But the e45 is corrosive wonder how long our non flex fuel systems hold up. So for a non corrosive alternative water meth. I heard that a bunch of the sema cars had the banks kit on them wonder if it was for looks or if they tuned for it?

 

[Dyn085]

I think @razorlab is putting up those numbers with those mods (FMIC+tune), but he's been tuning for years and has a good grasp on what he's doing. I'm currently Stage 3, but I don't have e85 pumps within a reasonable distance to go through tuning and keep some around for random drives. Either way, he would probably be one of the most accurate/experienced people to ask.

 

[sourskittle]

Yea razor lab is the man. I was meaning more ACTUAL dyno numbers. The V-dyno is close enough i hope ( I'm gonna find out tomorrow night ).

As far as Eth isn't going to eat our fuel lines or anything. The pumps don't like pure E85 ( which we leaned from mazda speeds ), but honestly, Lots of pro tuners have said that there is no reason to go above E50. And personally, I can run the cylinder pressure beyond making more power without getting timing corrections with 4gal of E85 mixed into a full tank of 93oct, so even E30/E40 is as good as anything with a stock turbo ( in a modified stock turbo like mine ). But even E50 would prob never see an issue with eth eating the hardware. Ford even said in an interview once that the ST had the mechanical hardware for E85, it just lacked the tune.

Razor's 240whp 300Tq V-dyno numbers are one extreme case, and while I'm hoping its accuracy is dead on, its just like any dyno. Its just a measuring tool, and like all dyno's, every measuring stick is different. What's really important is the way power is delivered, for how long, and how much. Razor's V-dyno and the car cobb tuned that made 220whp had amazingly flat power for being on the stock turbo, but... In racing where your at 4,900rpm+ all the time, that 300Tq at 2800rpms isn't doing a lot for you.

What I'm interested in.... Is cobb stg3 cars with cobb stg3 parts on 3rd party dyno's with OtS and 3rd party tunes. I'm having a hard time find guys with "stage3" cars to come to the dyno with me, lol.


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno

 

[sourskittle]

I'm hoping a friend that is going to the dyno tomorrow with me will put his focus ST on the dyno ( just has a catback only ). I'd like to overlay his graph and mine just for kicks.


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno

 

[15pbfist]

Yes that is the guy I was referring to. also interested in the same stage 3 with ots and 3rd party tunes. Will be doing stage 3 but with a mixture of manufactures Selecting the best performing parts from the data

 

[felopr]

The fuel system would be on the ragged edge of reliability if it even had enough go make 250whp on E45. My car is in the 230-245Whp range right now and I've got the fuel system CRANKED at 6,000+ rpms to keep up with E30/E40. On cold nights ( mid 40's degrees ), its not able to keep the AFR where I'm requesting it ( 12.0-12.2 ). It will lean out to 12.5. Which means if you live in a place where it gets "bat-shit crazy cold", you could push it into the 13+ range. And if your spinning a stock turbo fast enough to make 250whp ( not gonna happen btw ), then it could get really bad, really quick.

Highest whp number I've seen from a stock turbo'd fist so far is 220whp, and that was a full cobb Stg3 car tuned BY COBB. Cobb's shop car only made 217whp with stg3.


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno

Fair enough, thanks for the info, i personally if i reach 210 with 91 oct i will be happy

 

[sourskittle]

Yes that is the guy I was referring to. also interested in the same stage 3 with ots and 3rd party tunes. Will be doing stage 3 but with a mixture of manufactures Selecting the best performing parts from the data

I don't blame ya

In the coming year we will have more options for some cool parts.

Personally, I think that a Fist with 230hp on the topend and huge mid-range and very good bottom end is all I'll ever need. The only reason for me to mod any further is to make the same power on 93oct or over longer durations ( like say a road course ). And I do plan on building my 2J race style cowl intake, but mostly just because I can't stand the idea of how far the turbo has to PULL air from with all those bends. Every one is addressing the filter restriction and the place where it pulls its air from, but not the fact that its still having to pull air from 5 1/2 feet away from the actual turbo with 4 or more bends. Anyway... Even my taller and wider tires are having issues now with straight line traction, after that, what's the point? I could put $280 a piece tires on it, but I've been that route. $650 in tires every year (or more) def makes to think twice about stepping on the skinny pedal, and I don't like the idea of holding back due to cost ( which is why I bought a cheap fiesta for cheap expendables ).


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno

 

[15pbfist]

Saw that intake wonder how loud it actually is?the intake can't be louder than a tbe no cat and no res with a bov I would think. Also I thought if you called them up they would sell you one for 150$ (Don't quote on price) they were just not going to put on there sight due to you having to cut up your car.

 

[sourskittle]

I actually sent Joe $170 last May to build me one. He warned me, "its extremely loud, your not going to like it on a daily driver". He didn't scare me. But after months and months of delays and his shop having bigger fish to fry, he offered to refund my money and I took him up on it. At the same time he was sort of with-drawing from the forums, so I was happy to get the money back. If he offered to build me one within 3 weeks, I'd still do the same deal, but I still think he has bigger projects to chase than some $170 intake. And I don't blame him at all.


Cyborg turbo, TBE, panda TR6 intercooler, drop in green filter.
245whp 293Tq V-dyno

 

[Soldjeepforst]

With a stage 3 and ots map my fist puts down 220whp and 292wtq. With a pro tune you can get 12 to 15 more hp and 10 more wtq. Thats on california 91 gas. I havent touched anything else besides the plumbing.

 

[golfhack]

How much was the pro tune?

 

[Soldjeepforst]

I haven't gotten it yet but next Monday I'm getting it done. It's $695.00 for two maps and I also am getting the flex fuel system installed. I will find out if the stock fuel injectors can handle e 85.

 

[razorlab]

It's not the injectors you have to worry about handling the volume of full E85...

 

[15pbfist]

Isn't it the fuel pump that can't keep up. I plan on going with a water meth injection instead of the e tunes as soon as the winter is over I can't wait to see what it will do

 

[Soldjeepforst]

Well I will find out soon enough when I get my pro tune if it can handle it but he specifically mentioned that he's not sure the fuel injectors are going to be able to handle it. I'll be sure to post the results because I don't think there's a video of any fist that got a stage 3 91 octane pro tune.

 

[Soldjeepforst]

Isn't it the fuel pump that can't keep up. I plan on going with a water meth injection instead of the e tunes as soon as the winter is over I can't wait to see what it will do

Well I'm running 100 octane right now at stage 3 and to put that in perspective on what it can do, in the early morning getting 22-23psi I can stay right next to a Camaro ss to about 110 before he starts pulling away. Oh but don't tell the people that run the forum, they are against going fast.

 

[BRGT350]

Well I'm running 100 octane right now at stage 3 and to put that in perspective on what it can do, in the early morning getting 22-23psi I can stay right next to a Camaro ss to about 110 before he starts pulling away. Oh but don't tell the people that run the forum, they are against going fast.

not against going fast, against breaking traffic laws. Race tracks exist for a reason.