[was-an-M]

I am not usually one to throw a big brake kit on a car for track duty, but the Fiesta ST has gotten no love as far as pads are concerned so I'm thinking of putting a kit on the car.

Everyone knows about the 2011 Wilwood kit. It's a pretty nice price. My only beef is that they don't seem to offer rear pads in OE sizes so I have to keep the OEM rear pads. And what might this kit do to brake bias?

Then I found this kit:
http://www.pumaspeed.co.uk/product-K-Sport-Fiesta-Mk7-ST180-Big-Brake-Upgrade-Kit-305mm_16136.jsp

It's a kit from K-Sport and it looks great and seems to be of good quality, but it's got a long lead time and is a lot more than the Wilwood offering. The nice thing is they have pads that fit it that offer rear OE size pads. But I'm concerned with brake bias again.

Just wondering if anyone can weigh in on this. Or maybe make my day and point me towards some OE sized race pads.

 

[D1JL]

I have run my ST on three different road race style tracks (NOT auto-X) now.
I have found the OE brakes to work very well however they can be better.
One of our other members is having some Porterfield Pad being built.
I believe this will be a very good upgrade, having used Porterfield in the past and will buy them for my car.

I now also have all the parts required to install larger rotors (just ordered the front rotors) in the front and rear.
This will all be installed just as soon as I receive the front rotors.

Dave

 

[was-an-M]

Could you elaborate on the rotor upgrade? I'd be very interested.

Also if anyone has info on the porterfields.

Thsnks.

 

[D1JL]

Also if anyone has info on the porterfields.

Porterfield pads will be available in semi or full race.
The full race should NOT be used on the street as they do require to be hot before they work.


Dave

 

[was-an-M]

With my last car I swapped pads at the track so that's fine.

Any word on when I can order? Where I can order?

Thanks

 

[D1JL]

Could you elaborate on the rotor upgrade? I'd be very interested.

As soon as I receive the front rotors I will install the Proto-Type parts.
Shortly after the parts will go into production.


Dave

 

[D1JL]

With my last car I swapped pads at the track so that's fine.

Any word on when I can order? Where I can order?

Thanks

The pads have not yet been made for the FiST.
The blanks have been sent.
Just as soon as they are available that info will be posted.


Dave

 

[wash]

K-sport looks very sketchy. The rotor upsize seems like better bang for the buck than the Wilwood kit (its an upgrade for base model Fiestas).

Mountune's Alcon kit is probably the best thing out there but like the Wilwood kit, its front only.

I think a very good four wheel kit could be made from Wilwood parts but so far no one has bothered to build something on par with the kits they make for something like a Scion FRS.

 

[was-an-M]

K-sport looks very sketchy. The rotor upsize seems like better bang for the buck than the Wilwood kit (its an upgrade for base model Fiestas).

Mountune's Alcon kit is probably the best thing out there but like the Wilwood kit, its front only.

I think a very good four wheel kit could be made from Wilwood parts but so far no one has bothered to build something on par with the kits they make for something like a Scion FRS.

I'm not sure a 4 wheel kit is needed. So long as the bias isn't all thrown off I think 4 wheel kits are more for show than anything. I mean they are great but not really worth the money in my experience with other cars.

Alcon kits are always nice. But in light of other posts in this thread with new pads and rotors coming I'm thinking the stock calipers will work.

 

[wash]

D1JL's rotor upgrade makes sense because its increasing the brake torque at all four corners. A front only kit can't increase brake torque without introducing a front/rear brake bias issue.

Of course our ABS systems cover up little discrepancies like that but ultimate performance requires balance.

The best a front only kit can do is reduce unsprung weight and make the system more fade resistant.

Front only with rear pads isn't much better because you would need high mu pads which then kinds of traps you to one particular pad compound.

If done right, four corners can add brake torque, fade resistance and bling while reducing unsprung weight.

I think there is a combination of off the shelf Wilwood calipers that would be almost ideal, its just a matter of brackets, spoke clearance and custom rotor hats.

 

[was-an-M]

D1JL's rotor upgrade makes sense because its increasing the brake torque at all four corners. A front only kit can't increase brake torque without introducing a front/rear brake bias issue.

Of course our ABS systems cover up little discrepancies like that but ultimate performance requires balance.

The best a front only kit can do is reduce unsprung weight and make the system more fade resistant.

Front only with rear pads isn't much better because you would need high mu pads which then kinds of traps you to one particular pad compound.

If done right, four corners can add brake torque, fade resistance and bling while reducing unsprung weight.

I think there is a combination of off the shelf Wilwood calipers that would be almost ideal, its just a matter of brackets, spoke clearance and custom rotor hats.

Well changing the car's stock bias doesn't necessarily mean it harms on-track performance. There's lots of conjecture about the perfect brake bias so no reason to even go into that.

To say a front-only kit can only do those two things is a little inaccurate. Along with reducing unsprung weight and resisting fade (which is huge) it can also improve pedal feel, provide longer pad/rotor life, and make for easier pad swaps.

I didn't realize that High Mu made pads for our cars. I have no interest in that brand. I'll wait under Porterfield offers pads or PFC or Federo or someone.

If we can get good pads I'd probably just do that and be done with it. The stock system seems plenty capable. I'm just worried about the OE pads (although I've heard they are good), but I'll take a spare set of pads and rotors in my track box.

 

[D1JL]

Thanks wash.
I do believe that front and rear should be upgraded together.
That being said, we will be offering the hardware separately as well.
This will allow the end user to make their own choices.

The major problem factors we have found with the kits mentioned above is.
And please don't get me wrong they are fine products.
The size and cost of the calipers are prohibitive.
Not only are they very expensive.
They usually do NOT fit within the OE wheels without spacers.
This again makes the use of these kits to require added expense.
We also do not believe that spacers allow the proper geometry.

Once again the above mentioned kits are great products and if you are the hard core enthusiast I would encourage you to buy them.
If you wish to spend $3k-$5k.
For a daily driver I think that is just over kill.

I am just talking about added stopping force and better heat dissipation do to a larger rotor size.
Not only for regular street use but also the occasional track day.
With a price tag of (hopefully) less then $300.00 plus the cost of rotors & pads.


Dave

 

[was-an-M]

Dave, I'm inclined to agree on your comments on those kits.

I look forward to seeing what you have to offer.

 

[wash]

Mu is the term used to describe coefficient of friction, properly spelled as a Greek figure that my keyboard does not contain.

It is true about pad and rotor life, pedal feel and pad swaps but improving those aspects are neutral to negative on performance.

D1JL, I totally agree that the extra expense kills the value proposition of caliper upgrades but I look at it differently, if I'm going to spend that money I want to have the best brakes that will fit, light weight wheels and good tires to go on them, a total upgrade, not an upgrade with extra expenses just to make things fit.

The value proposition for a total upgrade relies on finding appropriate parts at commodity pricing and gluing it all together with just a few custom pieces. I have a plan...

 

[RodMoe]

Either of these plans (Dave's or Wash's) allow for a 15 inch light weight wheel ?

 

[was-an-M]

Mu is the term used to describe coefficient of friction, properly spelled as a Greek figure that my keyboard does not contain.

Ah ha, trying to use the fancy term.

Coefficient of friction works just fine. Mu is also a brand of pads hence the confusion.

 

[D1JL]

That is the best thing about having multiple options.
It gives each of us the opportunity to choose what we feel is best for US.

Our plan is to go about two inches larger in rotor diameter for the front, so NO, they will not fit in a 15" wheel.


Dave

 

[wash]

My plan will hopefully be a 15" for wheels and tire selection.

I know what rotors and calipers I want so I just have to figure out if they can fit under the wheels I'm thinking of.

If it all fits, it might save 15+ lbs a corner.

 

[RodMoe]

Be worth a look If they fit as it sits still waiting on TD wheels but I am guessing i'll be able to trim a good bit of 9-10 lbs per wheel going 15x8 from the stock But wont know till they are here and mounted and weighed.. lighter rotors would be gravey on that ...

 

[was-an-M]

Be worth a look If they fit as it sits still waiting on TD wheels but I am guessing i'll be able to trim a good bit of 9-10 lbs per wheel going 15x8 from the stock But wont know till they are here and mounted and weighed.. lighter rotors would be gravey on that ...

I'm trying to convince myself to go for 15's for my track setup but I worry they'll look tiny. Which I know is a stupid reason but it's killing me.